Friday, May 12, 2006

i'm no liberal feminist, but ...


Last night ... or was it early this morning? ... a couple of us over at Craig's blog were scoffing at an article written by a fundamentalist preacher who was getting blue in the face about women wearing pants. According to him, a woman who wears pants

1. IDENTIFIES HERSELF WITH A ROCK N' ROLL CULTURE OF SEX PERVERSION AND IDOLATRY!
2. COMMITS IDOLATRY, AND CAUSES MEN TO COMMIT IDOLATRY!
3. COMMITS ADULTERY, AND CAUSES MEN TO COMMIT ADULTERY
4. CAUSES MEN TO COMMIT THE SIN OF COVETOUSNESS
5. SINS BY WEARING MEN'S CLOTHING
6. IS CAUSING LASCIVIOUSNESS
7. WHEN A WOMAN WEARS PANTS, SHE IS IN TROUBLE WITH GOD JUST AS THE MAN IS IN TROUBLE, TOO!

click here to read it for yourself.

It started when a couple of us read Team Pyro's excellent article on women and modesty in the church. The ladies at Girl Talk give a biblical perspective for women on dressing to glorify God.

Here's a quote from another fellow about women. I'll let you mull over your own thoughts on this one.

As I've said, women should get married and have children before going to university. (University, especially the Arts, will poison their minds with Feminist dogma.) They should marry older guys who are beginning their careers.

26 comments:

The Borg said...

See there's some good stuff in there... pity about the rest.

Bobby said...

I think the quote is clearly a case of someone overstepping his bounds.

As far as the fundamentalist preacher, yeah, it's ridiculous. I grew up in that kind of church so I heard the spiel thousands of times. First, they usually lift a regulation found in Deut. 22:5 out of a long list of regulations given to the Israelites. They completely ignore the other regulations, and they apply extremely twisted, nonsensical login to 22:5 to come up with the prohibition on pants.

ckhnat said...

“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God."

Deut. 22:5

sajini said...

GRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

Machine said...

Heh. I suppose the guy would have a shit-fit about my drag queen get-up that I wear on the weekends.


Come on kids. Whatever happened to the "Love Sin, Hate the Sinner" speech you guys are always preaching?

ckhnat said...

Yeah, I'd say Scripture would have to something to say against your weekend activities.

and ... hem ... "love sin"?

Priscilla said...

When I was a freshman in college, I was asked to join another girl for lunch-someone I had met in the IVCF group. She proceeded to quote that exact scripture to me and admonish me because I was wearing a pair of jeans. Of course I was really put off! (I still am thinking about it)

I remember asking her what exactly contituted "men's clothing", since to the best of my knowledge no one in the Bible wore pants...not even men. Besides that, I had purchased my pair of jeans in the women's department of a store, not the men's.

Machine said...

It's great if you're an Israeli but most Christians don't have Jewish blood running through their veins. Remember kids, you're embracing a Middle-Eastern religion that had nothing to do with our European forefathers originally.

Priscilla said...

Well...guess what. I DO have some Jewish blood running in my veins! But...what does that really have to do with it? That's what's awesome! Jesusu Christ died for Jews and Gentiles alike! Praise God for His grace and mercy!

world champ stephen neal said...

Tellme Machine, what rligion/ideology did our European forefathers embrace? Or rather, should I remind you of such miniscule and inconsequential pieces of European history like the Holy Roman Empire, Constantine, Charlemagne, The Reformation and the development of the Papal State throughout the Renaissance? Maybe YOU should read up on your European history.

Cock the hammer, it's time for action.

ckhnat said...

Yes, Europe has a rich Christian history. However, and you can correct me if I'm wrong Machine, I believe he is going further back to Europe's pagan routes.

What I don't understand is what our blood has to do with the faith we embrace. If anything, it is CHRIST'S blood that unifies us, Jew and Gentile, through faith.

Machine said...

ckhnat is correct that I am refering to the pagan roots from which our forefathers had original beliefs in, and not the Judeo-Christian ideology that has been shoved down people's throats century after century.

Blood has EVERYTHING to do with the Jewish and Muslim religions. Look at all the bloodlines mentioned in the Old Testament and how important it is stressed. Even by today's standards alot of "converted" Jews are frowned upon even if they are successful (i.e. Sammy Davis Jr) by the Orthodox types.

But not to forget the original topic, Christianity was not welcomed by the Romans at first, let alone the Europeans until it was brought to them at the point of the sword. Even after people were converted the Catholic Church still had difficulty persuading its crowd to stick with their new-found religion, which is why you find so many Christian holidays centered around traditional pagan holidays. That's something most fundamental preachers tend to omit when proselytizing.

ckhnat said...

Christianity was not brought "by the sword" to the European tribes till approximately A.D. 300. The Roman Empire's official embrace of Christianity was superficial. Like you said, many of the pagan traditions were kept. The pagan office of Pontifex Maximus was retained and the title given to the bishop of Rome (the Pope). Vestial Virgins became nuns. And gods (humans who had performed 3 miracles) were given the name "Saint." All very suspicios and manipulative. The Roman Catholic Church still uses these tactics today, in my opinion. South America, Africa, Asia ... the ways in which the Catholic Church wins and retains its converts is to integrate their pagan traditions into their worship ... merely Christianizing their rituals. You will not find me to be a fan of Roman "Christianity."

However, before A.D. 300 it was the authentic Christians who were threatened by the sword. The message of the Good News of Jesus Christ was spread by word and deed, not by death.

Machine said...

At first it was a handful of Christians that were thrown to the lions, crucified, slayed etc, but that was just a small price to pay for the smiting, in the grand scheme of things. The Christians got their payback with interest in the end, and today have essentially wiped out the majority of smaller cultures out there. While most fundamentalists shy away from the Catholic Church, they are the "granddaddy" of the Christian movement today. Had not Martin Luther done his little song and dance, there would be no Protestant reformation. But I digress. The bottom line is that you all pray to the same Hebrew god and worship someone that claimed to be his son.

I don't know what part of Germany you're currently in, but in the Rhineland-Pfalz area where I'm at, churches are more so for decoration than they are for actual functionality. My German teacher has even said straight up that the majority of Germans are not practicing Christian, yet are taxed by the government to support the church regardless. Kinda puts things into perspective.

ckhnat said...

I pray for a renewed reformation within the church in Germany. A reformation of Scriptural spirituality rather than Institutional spirituality. The leaders within the state churches Catholic/Lutheran deny the inerrancy of Scripture, scoff at those who uphold it as truth, and have systematically killed the church themselves with their liberal theology. The German state churches are cold and dead. I would not be surprised if the Lord has removed their lampstand.

Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

As for Martin Luther, I disagree. Reform was brewing before Luther came on the scene. One hundred years previously in Bohemia, John Huss confronted the Roman Catholic Church in the name of Truth. His contemporary, Wycliffe and his followers the Lollards, also sought church reform and considered the Scriptures to be authoritative outside the church. Thus, they translated the Word of God into the English vernacular so all may have access to God's Word and not just the priests who read from the Latin Vulgate.

Before Martin Luther's fateful posting of his 95 Theses, Erasmus sought for moral reform within the church.

Erasmus sought, "the reformation of customs, the practice of decency and moderation, an inner devotion shaped by learning and meditation, and a church that encourages these things."

And no, I do not worship the same god, Jews claim to worship. They have rejected the Messiah, thus, they have rejected the One True God.

Luke 10:16
16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

But has God rejected his people?

Read what Paul has to say in his letter to the Romans:

Romans 11
11:1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. ...

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”

9 And David says,

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs forever.”

Gentiles Grafted In
11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

The Mystery of Israel's Salvation
25 Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 Just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”

36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

ckhnat said...

The quote about Erasmus came from p. 11.

Gonzalez, Justo L., The Story of Christianity, vol. 2. San Francisco: HarperCollins Publishers, 1985.

Machine said...

I hope that Germany and the rest of Europe returns to their pagan roots. I mean enough's enough.

And yes, the Jews worship the same Jehova god you claim to follow, only they denounce Jesus Christ. According to your scriptures they're doomed to Hell but how does a "chosen" race of people suddenly become "wrong" when their religion forms the foundation of Christianity? And before you go spouting more quotes, yes I know the "Road to Romans" speech and what not.

So many Christians fail to acknowledge the importance of the Old Testament or its rituals - the Sabbath primarily. In order to truly comprehend what your god asks of you, I think it's important to really explore this Hebrew religion from the ground up. Yom Kippur, Passover, kosher foods, etc.

If anything I'm surprised more Jews aren't putting the shoe on the other foot saying "We've been around alot longer than you guys, so pay attention". I think many Christians would think twice if they got a full dose of original Judaism.

ckhnat said...

You desire Europe to return to a state of fear?

Their religion become "wrong" when they reject the Promise, the climax of history and purpose, found in Jesus Christ. Their sacrificial systems were not adequate to forgive sin.

Hebrews 10:4
For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Here's a passage you'll be familiar with.

Romans 3:21-26
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

"because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins."

The people of God in the Old Testament shed the blood of bulls and goats as a foreshadowing of the ultimate sacrifice of the God/man Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4 continues:

8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He abolishes the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ [2] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”

17 then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

world champ stephen neal said...

Hey Machine,

Oddly enough, you too have bought in to the Middle Eastern-Religion that you scoff at. You aren't educated enough to be an Atheist, and your profile claims some type of Satanism. However, where does Satan, or Lucifer originate? As the antithesis of Jesus Christ, he appears in the "Middle-Eastern" text of the Bible. Explain that one.

ckhnat said...

If we're discussing origins ... civilization, itself, originated in the Middle East ... specifically the region of the Fertile Cresent. But that's neither here nor there.

As for Satan being the "Anti-thesis" ... enemy, yes. But not equal in power and might. It's not a good v. evil or ying yang world. He is a created being. There is nothing Satan or the demons can do that can thwart the ultimate plans and purposes of God.

Just in case you're interested, here's some notes from one of my prof's lecture about fallen angels and Satan.

III. Fallen Angels

A. The Origin of Satan and Demons

2. Satan and the Origin of Evil

Surely, we must affirm that in his originally created form, Satan was altogether good. Gen 1:31 says that God looked at all that he made, and it was very good. James 1:17 indicates that every good and perfect gift is from God, so God cannot make or give what is intrinsically evil.

So, how does a creature of goodness and purity become evil? Augustine helps on this with two observations (see City of God, On Free Will, Enchiridion, especially):

1) Created goodness is one of finite, mutable, and corruptible goodness (as opposed to God’s infinite, immutable, and incorruptible goodness). And,

2) Evil is not a positive quality in itself, but it is the misuse or misdirection of good. This must be since God is good and eternal, and God made only what is good, so evil must have come through the use of what is good, but a use that was wrong.

Relation to Satan: Since Satan, before his fall, was finite, he lacked much. No matter how glorious he may have been, he had his limitations. Being limited, he could see things (but only good things) that he did not possess and he could want them. In wanting what was not his (similar to the woman in the garden) he could bring about evil by misusing the good that was before him. So, these conceptions of finitude of created things, and evil as misdirected good, help explain how evil could have come from what is entirely good.

B. The Character of Fallen Angels

As with angels generally, more is said of the activities of demons than of their character, but some aspects are clear.

1. They too are personal beings with intelligence, emotion and will

• intelligence — Mark 1:24, 34 (demons knew Jesus was the Holy One); Matt. 8:28-29 (they know of their future torment)
• emotion — Matt. 8:28-29 (they fear the torment Jesus might bring upon them); James 2:19 (demons' belief in God makes them tremble or shudder, presumably with fear)
• will — 2 Pet. 2:4 (implies they willed to sin); Matt. 8:31 (demons wished to be sent into the herd of swine)

2. They are angels, and hence, spirit beings — Matt. 25:41 (hell is prepared for the devil and his angels); Rev. 12:9 (the dragon is thrown down to earth with his angels); Eph. 6:12 (our battle is against spiritual forces of wickedness)
3. They are morally evil — Matt. 10:1; Mark 1:23 ("unclean spirits"); Luke 7:21 ("evil spirits"); Eph. 6:12 ("spiritual forces of wickedness")
4. They are doctrinally corrupt and deceitful — 1 Tim. 4:1-3 (some who pay attention to "deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"); James 3:15 (the wisdom leading to jealousy and arro¬gance is "earthly, natural, demonic"). This fact is especially contemptible since they rightly understand there is one God and that Jesus is the Christ, the Holy One of the Father (James 2:19; Mark 1:24; Luke 8:28)

5. They are cruel and hurtful in their purposes and behavior -¬Mark 5:1-5 (Gerasene demoniac cried out among the tombs and gashed himself with stones); Matt. 12:22 (demon-possessed man who was blind and dumb); Matt. 17:14-18 (demon-possessed boy who was crazed, falling into the fire and into the water)

6. They have power exceeding human power — Mark 5:1-5 (demoniac tore apart shackles meant to restrain him); Acts 19:14-16 (an evil spirit leaped upon seven men and "subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled . . . naked and wounded")

C. The Activities of Fallen Angels

1. First and foremost, demons seek to advance Satan's purposes -¬Matt. 12:24 (Satan or "Beelzebul" is the ruler of the demons); Matt. 25:41; Rev. 12:7-9 (they are "his angels"); Eph. 6:11-12 (our real struggle is with "spiritual forces of wickedness" which carry out "the schemes of the devil"); Rev. 16:13-14 (demons proceed from the dragon, beast and false prophet to gather the nations for war with God)

2. They promote idolatry and worship of demons — Lev. 17:7; Deut. 32:17 (sacrifices to demons); Ps. 106:34-39 (sacrifice sons and daughters to demons); 1 Cor. 10:20 (Gentiles sacrifice to demons); Rev. 9:20 (worship of demons and idols)

3. They promote false teaching — 1 Tim. 4:1-3; 1 John 4:1-4

4. They perform false signs and wonders — Rev. 13:12-15; 16:12-14; cf. Matt. 24:24; 2 Thess. 2:8-10
5. They oppose Christian faith and growth — Eph. 6:10-16 (spiritual warfare for the faith); Rev. 18:2, 24 (Babylon, the dwelling place of demons, killed prophets and saints)

6. They possess individuals, involving control over them and affliction of them — mental and physical affliction: Mark 5:1-5 (gashing himself with stones); Matt. 9:32 (dumbness); Matt. 12:22 (blindness); Matt. 17:15 (lunacy); Luke 13:11 (deformity); and control over people: Mark 5:1-5 (gashing with stones); Matt. 17:14-18 (throw himself into the fire and water)


D. Some Particular Characteristics and Activities of Satan

1. Biblical Terms for Satan

a. OT Name

The Hebrew term satan, "adversary," is used as a noun 27 times in the OT, 10 of these for human adversaries, and 17 of Satan (15 in Job, 2 in Zech. 3:1-2). When used of Satan, the article is used with the term satan.

Note: 1 Chron. 21:1 has an anarthrous use of satan (i.e., no article included), and so should most likely be translated, as with the other such occurrences, as "an adversary." This helps clear up the apparent conflict between 1 Chron. 21:1 and 2 Sam. 24:1, the latter of which says, "the anger of the Lord burned against Israel," and it incited David to number the people. The adversary of 1 Chron. 21:1 may be understood as the nations over which David wished to be superior, and God's anger, then, coincides with these enemy nations as what incites David. (See John Sailhamer, 1st and 2nd Chronicles, pp. 52-53.)

b. NT Names

The Greek term diabolos "slanderer" occurs 37 times in the NT, and the term satanos occurs 36 times. It is clear that there is in the N1' a heightened awareness of Satan and his demons, both in the gospel accounts of Jesus' ministry, and in the life of the early church. No doubt the coming of Christ elicited an unprecedented display of Satan's activity in an attempt to thwart Christ's mission and the subsequent witness of His Spirit.

c. Other biblical names ascribed to Satan

— accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10)
— our adversary the devil (1 Pet. 5:8)
— the father of lies (John 8:44)
— a murderer (John 8:44)
— dragon (Rev. 12:3)
— the serpent of old (Rev. 12:9)
— the power of darkness (Col. 1:13)
— the prince of this world (John 12:31)
— the prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2)
— the evil one (Eph. 6:16; 1 John 5:19)
— the wicked one (Matt. 13:19)
— the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4)

2. Satan's Activities

a. Ruler of the present evil world system — John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11 ("ruler of this world"); Matt. 4:8-10 (Jesus' is offered the kingdoms of this world by Satan); Acts 26:18 (turn from darkness to light, from the dominion of Satan to God); 2 Cor. 4:4 (god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving); Eph. 2:2 (prince of the power of the air); 2 Tim. 2:26 (escape the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will); 1 Jn. 5:19 (the whole world lies in the power of the evil one)

b. Ruler of the demon world — Matt. 12:24 (Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons; cf. v. 26); Matt. 25:41; Rev. 12:7-9 (the devil and his angels)

c. He thwarts the spread of the gospel — Matt. 13:19 (evil one snatches away seed); Matt. 13:38-39 (devil sows tares among the wheat); 1 Thess. 2:18 (Satan thwarted Paul from going to the church at Thessalonica); 2 Cor. 4:4 (the god of this world blinds the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ)

d. He tempts God's people to sin — Luke 4:1-13 (the temptation of Christ; note esp. v. 13: the devil departed until another opportune time); 1 Cor. 7:5 (sexual temptation); 2 Cor. 2:11 (Satan schemes against Paul); Eph. 4:26-27 (remaining angry too long gives the devil an opportunity); Eph. 6:10-20 (the evil one and his spiritual forces seek to wage war against believers); 1 Tim. 3:7 ("the snare of the devil")

e. He can bring about sickness, oppression and death — Luke 13:10-17 (Jesus healed a woman who for 18 years had a . sickness "caused by a spirit" and who was "bound by Satan" vv. 11, 16); Mark 5:1-20 (Gerasene demoniac; note esp. v. 5); 1 Cor. 5:5 (deliver over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh); 2 Cor. 12:7 (thorn in the flesh is a "messenger of Satan"); Heb. 2:14 (the devil who had the power of death)

f. He can enter or possess individuals — Luke 22:3-4 (Satan entered Judas; cf. John 13:2, 27); cf. possibly Acts 5:3

g. Accuser of God's people — Job 1:9 ("Does Job fear God for nothing?" cf. Job 2:1-6); Rev. 12:10 (Satan is the accuser of the brethren)

h. Murderer and Liar — John 8:44 (Jesus describes the devil as a murderer from the beginning, who has no truth in him and so lies from his own nature, and is the father of lies)

i. Deceiver — Gen. 3:13; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14 (Eve deceived by the serpent); Matt. 24:24 (Satan's false signs and wonders will endeavor to mislead, if possible, the elect); 2 Thess. 2:10 (deception of wickedness for those who perish); Rev. 12:9; 13:14; 20:3, 8, 10 (Satan is the deceiver of the world)

E. The Defeat of Satan and His Angels

1. The defeat is already secured by Christ — John 12:31 (the ruler of this world has been judged); Col. 2:15 (by the cross Christ disarmed the rulers and authorities); Heb. 2:14 (through death Christ rendered powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil); 1 John 3:8 (the Son of God appeared to destroy the works of the devil)

2. The full and final manifestation of this sure defeat is yet future — Rom. 16:20 (the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet); Rev. 12:7-17 (the dragon will be cast down to the earth); Rev. 20:7-10 (at the end of the millennium, Satan will finally be judged and cast into the lake of fire)

F. The Destiny of Satan and the Fallen Angels

1. They are not offered salvation — Heb. 2:16 ("He [Christ] does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham," the context making clear that the help is deliverance from spiritual slavery and death; cf. 2 Pet. 2:4 and Jude 6)

2. They will be judged by redeemed humans — 1 Cor. 6:3 ("Do you not know that we shall judge angels?" referring, in all likelihood, to judgment of evil angels)

3. Their destiny during the millennium, presumably, is the abyss -¬Rev. 20:1-3 (Satan is bound and thrown there, so it stands to reason his demons are bound along with him); cf. Luke 8:31 (demons request Jesus not to cast them into the abyss, presum¬ably where they know they will go)

4. Their final destiny is the lake of fire (hell) — Matt. 25:41 ("the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"); Rev. 20:10 ("And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever")

Machine said...

"Hey Machine,

Oddly enough, you too have bought in to the Middle Eastern-Religion that you scoff at. You aren't educated enough to be an Atheist, and your profile claims some type of Satanism. However, where does Satan, or Lucifer originate? As the antithesis of Jesus Christ, he appears in the "Middle-Eastern" text of the Bible. Explain that one.
"

Simple. And you show how ignorant YOU truly are!

Every religion has an archetype - a prime bad guy. The Hindus have Shiva, the Christians have Satan, the Nordic cultures had Loki, the Egyptians had Set, so on and so on - "Satanism" is a name that is used since it is the most easily identifiable to most people, instead of just calling it "Humanism". Satanism promotes indulgence, not compulsion in joys of the flesh. The so called "7 Deadly Sins" are quite fun when done in moderation. But I'm straying from the topic at hand - the topic is that you claim me to be ignorant - I challenge you to read The Satanic Bible if you haven't done so already to see what I'm talking about. I'm not going to quote line item by line item (as tempting as it is) since that's nothing more than filler space as far as I am concerned.

Show me your big guns Mr Wrestler - show me the knowledge you have WITHOUT having to rely on your Bible for back up. And that goes for the rest of you too.

world champ stephen neal said...

Don't start backing up on me now Machine. All of these figures you mention come from different religions and religious texts - all of which developed independantly of one another. You can try to sell the idea that they are all the same, but you are wrong. Think about polytheistic religions, for example. If all antagonistic beings are "satan," then why the need for multiples? Lets face it, you are a Middle-Eastern Religious fanatic.

CraigS said...

So many Christians fail to acknowledge the importance of the Old Testament or its rituals - the Sabbath primarily. In order to truly comprehend what your god asks of you, I think it's important to really explore this Hebrew religion from the ground up. Yom Kippur, Passover, kosher foods, etc.

Any evidence for this startling assertion? Most churches I have attended have regularly preached on the Old Testament.

Don said...

Image created and hosted by
www.danzfamily.com

Original blog entry:
www.danzfamily.com/archives/2004/06/modest_swimwear.php

mike said...

I remember look at those pics of the swimwear and thinking how aweful....

mike said...

I wasn't reading your blog much at this stage.. I thought you were a bit out of my league. Love you