Tuesday, July 04, 2006

love and fear


While reading Fearlessly Feminine, I came across this verse:

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

What does it mean? How does this look? How is it lived out?

Also, I can't agree with Mark Driscoll more. Most women have become feminists because men are not doing their duty. True ... true ... although, I champion male leadership, there are times when I sink into feminism when I have to deal with cowardly men. Driscoll picks at Christian men, specifically. (It could also be said that men are not doing their duty because women have become feminists.) Just STOP it, both sides! Listen to Driscoll's sermon "A Devoted Dad" on John 4 here.

UPDATE: My friend, Jiri, made me aware of this article. How could you Australian women hold out on me?!! I didn't tear the chapter out because Ecclesiasters chapter 1 began on the other side ... I just strategically placed blank mailing labels over it.

33 comments:

Hannah said...

Is that article a joke? Please tell me it is...

ckhnat said...

Ha ... notice the website name Lark News ...

Hannah said...

Yeah, I noticed it....just wanted to confirm!

Hannah said...

I looked at your pictures....you're stunning!

sajini said...

I love Lark news!!! FUNNY STUFFF

CraigS said...

Thanks Han, you are too kind...oh, you were talking to CK? ah.

Most women have become feminists because men are not doing their duty. True ... true ... although, I champion male leadership, there are times when I sink into feminism when I have to deal with cowardly men.

Darn right. Some of our guys need a big kick up the butt.

Jonny said...

Well I listened to the talk. I have failed to marry so that makes me a coward I guess. But there are very few women that need a husband, most can support themselves. And as I have never had a realy good job, I'm seen as a dud. (Even though women earn heaps of money, they still instictively look for a guy that does also). So I have had to go back to uni to eventually earn some good worldly $$. By the time I am finnished women my age would probably be past their child bearing years. (I'm not sure of this).

But I enjoy being an uncle. Does that get any credit?

It was probably in reaction to weak leaders of the church that lead my Mum to become a ordained minister, and has now been the leading preacher in several churches. She has written an article "Women in Ministry".

CraigS said...

Jonny, its more about the attitude than the $$ mate...

Chris said...

Cheers Craigs, I'd agree. My wife is always telling me that she loves a "man with a plan" ... in other words, I'm not there to make her work. Simple example: instead of asking "so, where do you want to go to dinner," I should say "we're going here, [as long as that's alright is always implied], and then I thought we'd go for a walk along this road. I called ahead, they said they we can take the dog [we're raising a seeing-eye dog] and oh yes, here's the train schedule, I thought we'd leave on the 6:17".

I only say this because I'm horrible at actually DOING it and that makes me a not-so-good husband. But I plan on doing it more.....

CraigS said...

Chris, I hear that all the time. Chicks much prefer I guy who says "Lets do this" as opposed to "I dunno, what do you wanna do?"

Nixter said...

Chris and Craig I agree..

Nixter said...

Make a decision I say.... as long as thats alright always helps ;)

j.wo said...

CHRISTINE!!! I MISS YOU!!!

(OK, now I'll actually go back and read your post...)

;)

ckhnat said...

precisely! craig and chris ... i loathe it when men are wishy-washy ... it's a good characteristic to exercise ... be asertive and have a plan ... chicks LOVE it

Jonny said...

Chicks love guys to have a carear plan, but if they say "I plan to marry you" they run very far. (If it's a first date. I have never done this.)

But in a relationship, it is fair enough for guys to plan stuff, (as long as that plan is magicaly the same as the girl had dreamed).

ckhnat said...

keen insight, jonny. it does seem to run that way with most chicks.

Donners said...

If my husband had told me he wanted to marry me on our first date, it may have put me off. Put telling someone you are serious about considering marriage is I think a reassuring, encouraging thing.

Someone who is non-committal about how they feel about you can make one feel unsure if its worth the effort. IMHO

CraigS said...

But in a relationship, it is fair enough for guys to plan stuff, (as long as that plan is magicaly the same as the girl had dreamed).

Yeah, there can be a bit of that. But I think if you are "firm" enough with them they will stop playing games like that.

Justin said...

Christine.

I listened to the sermon [iPod plus NYC subway = 5 sermons a week]. Lots of challenging stuff for this coward.

It was my second Mark Driscoll sermon. The other was on Habakkuk 2 -- "The Righteous shall live by faith.". [Am preaching on Hab in 5 weeks time.]

I know that this is not the point of your post. But neither sermon was on the text. The sermon on "The Devoted Dad" was not on John ch 4. It touched on John ch 4, but really it was Driscoll ch 4.

I'm being a bit cheeky. It was a challenging sermon. But what do you think about starting with John 4 and then spring-boarding like that to his material? And others to?

Is it OK to have a great sermon encouraging men and women to take up our roles using the text, but not really on the text?

[The text was loosely used -- but I don't think that the Apostle John intended all this when he wrote the story. It started with Driscoll's observation of a guy's faith and humility and place within his family, and then kind of moved to Eph 5, 6, some of Proverbs, and maybe a bit of Exodus, without mentioning any of them.]

Any of the Sydney Anglicans out there will recognise my expositional training! :)

Can a preacher do that? Any thoughts?

ckhnat said...

you're correct Justin, this is typical Driscoll. As far as expositional preaching goes ... it's a poor example.

But a good talk, nonetheless.

ckhnat said...

I "preached" on Habakkuk back in January ... one of my favorite books.

... by "preached" i mean i preached to women.

ckhnat said...

hmph ... but now that I think about it ... it was more the text I used when sharing my testimony rather than a sermon.

world turned upside down

Jonny said...

Justin: I agree. He read John 4 a bit, then went on to talk about the modern father. Not really the key point of John 4 at all.

He also used the word coward a fair bit to discribe men in general. Often using this to mean they fail to get married. I think he should qualify that. Men don't have to get married, but if they are in a steady relationship then it would be the good thing to do, at the right time. (As opposed to living with a woman not your wife.)

Justin said...

Christine, Re Driscoll and John 4 -- It would have been better that he had either not mentioned John 4 or acknowledged that ‘what I am about to say is an extended reflection on this guy’s humility and courage, and probably not the Apostle's point’.

Or maybe he could have just called it: "Mark Driscoll's reflection to cowards about becoming a man after careful consideration of the scriptures and modern life." :)

Then we would have known where it was all coming from.

My thing is this: I wonder if there is enough accountability with lots of popular
speakers in the US about how they preach and what they say. There are lots of tragic examples of that.

Driscoll is the opposite of tragic! He is most certainly one of the good guys. But I would suggest that this means that he ought to be extra careful about being textually honest.

I’d say that's about 2 cents worth…

PS Was still challenged. I know that I have had a lot of fear and cowardice to overcome in my life. And more to come.

Justin said...

And great work on Habakkuk. Very personal. I'm interested that you think that Hab is not crying out for himself, but for God's honour? I think he is confused...

My talk is: what to do with the problem of evil? [When God can right wrongs and you can't, but you would and he won't!] And especially, what happens when it's personal?

Answer from Habakkuk:
1. Wrestle with God [with a robust confidence].
2. Wait for God [to do the 'unexpected'].
3. Trust in Jesus [even when all evidence points to the contrary].

I take it to the Cross, for there, Habakkuk’s questions are answered in the unexpected way -- there, God uses evil [The Messiah killed] to bring his justice and mercy in his timing. Same as using Babylon to execute his plans on Judah.

But, in the meantime, don't stop wresting!

ckhnat said...

Ah ... many of the pastors out here are blissfully ignorant of Mr. Olsteen. I noticed his book on a pastor's shelf, grabbed it, and asked what the pastor thought of it.

"Haven't read it. But he sure has nice teeth."

Ha.

I love your points, Justin. I fell in love with the book of Habakkuk because of his zeal for God. It reminded me so much of David's psalms ... so full of confusion and yet passion for God's glory ... zealous anger.

ckhnat said...

hmph ... i noticed no one is answering my original question

Justin said...

Joel comes on Tele at 6am on Sundays. I can watch for about 5 minutes before I conclude that 'Your Best Life Now' is not a life worth living.

I am nervous for Joel Osteen re leadership and being judged. I guess that makes it even more important for other pastors to be careful.

And nice teeth indeed.

Yes to Hab’s zealous passion. I like how the most important words in Habakkuk 3:17-19 are the words: No, Not and Nor. This is definitely not “Your best Life now”.

Justin said...

YEs. Back to your point. I'm done with my rant...

ckhnat said...

doesn't that passage just make you want to stand up on the chair of the cafe you're in and shout out Habakkuk's words!!!

CraigS said...

Which question Christine?

ckhnat said...

1 John 4:18

CraigS said...

From the context, He is talking about fear of final judgement. If we love God, and perceive His love for us, we will not fear judgement because we know that we are secure in Christ.