tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post115962691585513502..comments2023-07-07T22:29:25.782+10:00Comments on the early days of ... I'd rather laugh than cry: beauty does not equate godliness ... but neither does plain-nessckjollyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06263260525667337446noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159883184955927172006-10-04T00:46:00.000+11:002006-10-04T00:46:00.000+11:00Don't feel horrible - I was just really worried ab...Don't feel horrible - I was just really worried about you two - didn't hear a word about not going...still haven't heard from Sajini, hoping she's ok, too..Bethanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18218582402990383568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159840458003894922006-10-03T12:54:00.000+11:002006-10-03T12:54:00.000+11:00i think that Bethy is referring to the DG conferen...i think that Bethy is referring to the DG conference this weekend that i said i was going to go to but didn't. Eep! I'm so sorry we didn't get a chance to meet up. I feel horrible.ckjollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263260525667337446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159838721704809502006-10-03T12:25:00.000+11:002006-10-03T12:25:00.000+11:00Sounds to me like you all basically agree with one...Sounds to me like you all basically agree with one another.<BR/><BR/>Bethy31, I feel for you!Priscillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17112988669895238674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159806664676147472006-10-03T03:31:00.000+11:002006-10-03T03:31:00.000+11:00Christine, I had to just laugh at the last comment...Christine, I had to just laugh at the last comment about trousers and skirts, because sometimes it just feels like we're all fighting a battle to make sure we give the "right" answer that makes everyone happy. As a former non-make-up wearer who now takes a whopping 5 minutes to throw on some mascara so people don't think I'm dying (hey blonde eyelashes somehow insinuate forthcoming death or extreme sickness) I say wear your make-up, don't wear it, and if you feel like it paint your face up like a clown. You hit the nail when you said it's what's behind the make-up that counts and yet the existance of make-up doesn't negate what's in the heart nor does it cover it(at least that's what I took from what you said). Sometimes I wonder in the rush to exhort inner-beauty if we spend too much time pooh-poohing outer beauty. Who says that both can't be present and worthwhile.Katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04629402341234199208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159805359154866272006-10-03T03:09:00.000+11:002006-10-03T03:09:00.000+11:00I guess I got totally ignored - so oddI guess I got totally ignored - so oddBethanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18218582402990383568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159802045770343502006-10-03T02:14:00.000+11:002006-10-03T02:14:00.000+11:00I'd rather laugh than cry: where does body hair co...<A HREF="http://ckhnat.blogspot.com/2006/10/where-does-body-hair-come-in.html" REL="nofollow">I'd rather laugh than cry: where does body hair come in?</A>ckjollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263260525667337446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159801622491744802006-10-03T02:07:00.000+11:002006-10-03T02:07:00.000+11:00I hope it is okay to ramble a bit from feeling ins...I hope it is okay to ramble a bit from feeling inspired to explore after reading this and some comments.<BR/><BR/>Okay beauty is the alluring factor that motivates the very me, or my sense of identity to impress or be valued by myself. Really I want to be objectively seen as special, correctly patterned, substantive in a living poem, somehow representing 'me'. I want to BE loved. <BR/><BR/>So, beauty than is utilitarian. It is a tool for some great ambition of relationship. <BR/>Real Love than, is beyond beauty, since 'ugly' or anything other than 'beauty' has acheived real love. <BR/><BR/>If God really loves me, than if if right, I can fully accept the 'ugly' now, or as if from an ultimately objective perspective of eternity, and be thankful, appreciative and full of pure joy that I was with or seeing this ugliness, and not something I as yet still believed of as beautiful. How can this be? This thought seems to me to be impossible, yet also I know that it is truth, it is Grace.Jalopy Macfurrlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17221788232736484305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159675555202858452006-10-01T15:05:00.000+11:002006-10-01T15:05:00.000+11:00interesting discussion! Where I really start to ge...interesting discussion! <BR/><BR/>Where I really start to get confused and a little peeved is how we define our outward beauty too. Does wearing a skirt actually make me feminine? Longer hair? a necklace? It's not that I object to Christian women being beautiful, but we do some strange things. Like removing our body hair so that we look like pre-pubescent girls for example... <BR/><BR/>any thoughts on the how of beauty?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07718789584926278773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159669553542699262006-10-01T13:25:00.000+11:002006-10-01T13:25:00.000+11:00Makes me think of a recent conversation I had with...Makes me think of a recent conversation I had with someone... or something I read... can't remember where or who... maybe it was on your blog... <BR/><BR/>ANYWAY, the gist is that an individual had worked with of a group of indiginous people, seeking to lead them to Christ and disciple them. The people group had known another missionary couple, and when they came to visit they noticed the blandness of their home, the lack of color and creativity. It actually was a turnoff for the people group, since they equated Christianity with blandness. I believe the new missionary helped the people see quite the opposite.<BR/><BR/>It's not exactly what we're talking about here, but I think it's relevent in a roundabout way.<BR/><BR/>Beth - my husband and his friend are kickin' it at the Desiring God conference this weekend... you may bump into him!Donna S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03807800263179590973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159668029470259022006-10-01T13:00:00.000+11:002006-10-01T13:00:00.000+11:00scroll down to page 40 if you want to read the art...scroll down to page 40 if you want to read the article linked aboveckjollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263260525667337446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159667971983281382006-10-01T12:59:00.000+11:002006-10-01T12:59:00.000+11:00Celebrating Biblical Womanhoood: Philosophies of ...<A HREF="http://www.cbmw.org/journal/editions/9-2.pdf#search=%22%221%20Corinthians%207%3A4%22%22" REL="nofollow">Celebrating Biblical Womanhoood: <BR/>Philosophies of Beauty in Conflict</A> by Nancy Leigh DeMoss <BR/><BR/>THIS is what I was trying to say.ckjollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263260525667337446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159666748864064112006-10-01T12:39:00.000+11:002006-10-01T12:39:00.000+11:00"...due to no or little Christian presence in the ...<I>"...due to no or little Christian presence in the arts, the world slipped in and took control. Christians coiled back, repulsed by what they saw and condemned art as evil. In their own attempts at the different genres, they were content with mediocrity producing what i like to call "Jesus Junk" or cookie cutter arts and crafts or oil paintings mass produced to be put on coffee cups and mouse pads."</I><BR/><BR/>So true! It's happened in painting, in dance (if a church even allows dance), in sculpture and architecture, and especially in music. I can't tell you how horrified I am by most of the music that comes off the Christian labels and into our church - and then people want to play it during worship services! I heard once that there's a program somewhere that automatically generates hillsong worship songs for you using a number of catch phrases; i.e. the "Jesus my Boyfriend" song. DaVinci's Notebook (an a capella group) does a fantastic piece of their own: "<A HREF="http://www.kasima.org/creations/acappella/media/davincis_titleofthesong.mp3" REL="nofollow">Title of the Song</A>" which is a format piece for a boy band. It's remarkable how similar the two are.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17504548881017531837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159665180483028112006-10-01T12:13:00.000+11:002006-10-01T12:13:00.000+11:00Dani - I never said you wereDani - I never said you wereCraig Schwarzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11156017639962303656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159656098768921442006-10-01T09:41:00.000+11:002006-10-01T09:41:00.000+11:00Thanks Christine :) I appreciate that.Craig- I was...Thanks Christine :) I appreciate that.<BR/><BR/>Craig- I wasn't asking her to justify her looking nice for her guy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159654531645237872006-10-01T09:15:00.000+11:002006-10-01T09:15:00.000+11:00Indeed, Chris, I would hope that Christians would ...Indeed, Chris, I would hope that Christians would be the highest supporter of the high arts both in production, participation, and support. But instead, Christians of the 20th Cent. have shyed away from the arts and culture. Perhaps originally it was due to economic reasons but then due to no or little Christian presence in the arts, the world slipped in and took control. Christians coiled back, repulsed by what they saw and condemned art as evil. In their own attempts at the different genres, they were content with mediocrity producing what i like to call "Jesus Junk" or cookie cutter arts and crafts or oil paintings mass produced to be put on coffee cups and mouse pads. <BR/><BR/>The God we worship created beauty. Should we not do the same?ckjollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263260525667337446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159654002787525772006-10-01T09:06:00.000+11:002006-10-01T09:06:00.000+11:00Hey Christine, it's totally cool to want to look n...Hey Christine, it's totally cool to want to look nice for your guy. You don't need to justify it...Craig Schwarzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11156017639962303656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159653878349851332006-10-01T09:04:00.000+11:002006-10-01T09:04:00.000+11:00sorry dani,looking back i can tell that i was bein...sorry dani,<BR/><BR/>looking back i can tell that i was being a bit reactionary, responding to things you never said.ckjollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263260525667337446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159653200609078712006-10-01T08:53:00.000+11:002006-10-01T08:53:00.000+11:00Thanks for your post Christine. I want to say that...Thanks for your post Christine. <BR/><BR/>I want to say that it certainly has not been my intention to cause you frustration as I have interacted with your thoughts on this issue. I'm trying to work it all out in my own head as well, and for me the best way to do that is to dialogue with others on the sure foundation of Scripture. So I am sorry if you have been frustrated by my ongoing interaction with you on this.<BR/><BR/>However, whilst you think I have misrepresented your view or misunderstood you opinion, I can't help but think that the reverse is also true. For example <B>I have not said</B>-<BR/>- that women should not wear makeup (on the contrary I said I often wore some)<BR/>- that it is wrong for women to want to look attractive or feminine (I love wearing skirts and am looking forward to our college ball at the end of the week)<BR/>- that you don't value inner beauty <BR/>- that beauty should not be appreciated as a blessing of God (in fact my post on my own blog clearly said I think it is right to appreciate beauty)<BR/><BR/>None of this has been used in my discussion here - and if any of my words gave anyone that impression then I apologise for not writing as articulately as I should have.<BR/><BR/>My concern has been, rather, on two things which you (and others) have affirmed in this discussion.<BR/>- Firstly that in making yourself appear more physically attractive (<B>not</B> in comparison to a slob as per my last comment) people will have a higher opinion of you which then gives them a better impression of your boyfriend<BR/>- Secondly that making ourselves more physically attractive on the outside reveals more about our inner beauty.<BR/><BR/>I've only spoken to these concerns because I don't understand what their Scriptural foundation is. It may very well be that there is one- which is why I wanted to discuss it and encourage you to help me understand these two propositions (above) better. But instead you (and probably most others commenting on here) think I am somehow rebuking you for wanting to put on pearls, wear a bit of makeup and look feminine. I'm not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159651886416475022006-10-01T08:31:00.000+11:002006-10-01T08:31:00.000+11:00Bravo both for your sentiments and the manner in w...Bravo both for your sentiments and the manner in which you communicated them. It is this essential concept which I have been mulling about in my head for quite some time, and simply haven't had the wisdom to know how to say - likely because I'm a guy, and there's simply no effective way (at least that I've found) to point this out. So often our church culture rejects certain kinds of beauty (it can be argued that much of the history of the twentieth century church was a rejection of high forms of art, for example... which might explain the current downward spiral of much of it) instead of realizing that <I>all</I> beauty is from God and ought to be valued.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this post; it was a blessing.Chris Krychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04987231458069231389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159649968523982022006-10-01T07:59:00.000+11:002006-10-01T07:59:00.000+11:00Are you at the Desiring God conference? I'm tryin...Are you at the Desiring God conference? I'm trying to hook-up with you and Sajini to no avail - call me if you're here and we'll hook up for dinner..Bethanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18218582402990383568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11674728.post-1159627519534362672006-10-01T00:45:00.000+10:002006-10-01T00:45:00.000+10:00I just noticed that you posted a new entry so I'll...I just noticed that you posted a new entry so I'll post my comment from this morning on this entry as well :)<BR/><BR/>"Sometimes I think the intensity with which this message is preached is rather reactionary to such issues as anorexia/bolemia, obesity, immodest dress and appearance, causing opinions to be swayed to the other extreme with equating plain/bland appearance with godliness. Isn't that the same? Both are trying to draw attention to themselves by their outward appearance one with enhancing it, the other by disregarding it. 2 extremes. Similar motives."<BR/><BR/>This is the very reason I was compelled to write a recent blog entry:<BR/><BR/>http://gloriousgrace.blogspot.com/2006/09/from-modesty-to-vanity.htmlGloryandGracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11700428736344317474noreply@blogger.com